Author Topic: My Fiesta project - mission 250bhp/tonne (Read 3077 times)

jon_s · « **on:** 26-Dec-2007, 15:09:46 »

Ok, well, the car will be familiar to some of you! For the un-initiated, a full and very detailed build diary can be found here:

http://www.walish.co.uk/page_projectrs_frameset.htm

In summary, I started out with a sound 1998 mk4 1.25 Fiesta. Instead of changing car, I decided to build my own, faster car. The original plan was to drop a Focus RS engine in which would have given me over 200bhp in one go. However, I know a few projects along the same lines that have run into serious and spendy problems. I only know of one mk5 Fiesta which is running a FRS engine and it is running on solid engine mounts to stop the engine hitting anything!

So, I decided to go elsewhere. A Ford Racing Puma engine is a good tried and tested route to go and by fortune, a complete front end of a FRP turned up on ebay which I bought.

The engine went in and that is where the car is currently. I am going to develop a turbo for the car (based around the GT28RS). This has previously been done by a chap called Toby who is going to help out. I am going to steal all his piston designs e.t.c. By the end, the car should be running 250 - 260bhp. This is exactly the same amount of power as Toby which is how I know the car can handle the power.

Anyway, here is a little video for the car in its current 155bhp form. It is from around 40mph to 90mph. I was going to go from 0mph, but a car was following me onto the Motorway slip road! Typical. Also, ignore me running into the limiter!! It is amazing how much your concentration can be distracted by holding a camera, turning a corner, flooring it, changing gear and trying to not rear end the car which is fast approaching!!

http://www.walish.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/MVI_3772.avi

Anyway, enough talk....a quick history of my car in pics:

The starting point:

H&R coilovers:

Stripped for paint:

Back to the metal:

In primer:

First coat:

Getting there:

New wheels:

Out of paint:

Sound deadened:

New interior:

Ready for a new engine:

The donor:

Engine out:

Old engine out:

New engine going in:

Engine in:

Electrics:

How she is today:

brembo · « **Reply #1 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 15:30:18 »

She looks good, around here nobody builds on fiestas so it is interesting to see the ones you UK guys are working on....

On the turbo charging part what pressure are you going for,and will you rebuild the whole bottom part and do a full head and cam job on it?

Are there any possibilities to stroke the engine to get more deplacement?

You might have allready said or done this but are you what diff are you running if you are running one....with a decetn quaife diff why stop at 250bhp.....

MartinR · « **Reply #2 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 15:31:01 »

Can't wait to see and hear it in its finished forms. What sorta performance figures do you think it'll have?

everso · « **Reply #3 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 15:35:12 »

welcome to JW, man!!

the Fiesta looks really clean after the work you've done on it. nice job! weren't you the one who was originally thinking of putting in an Audi 1.8T into it??

anyway, nice ride..looks like fun

TT · « **Reply #4 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 15:46:16 »

Talk about an interesting project. I am almost thrilled by such things, and can't wait for more news!!

jon_s · « **Reply #5 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 16:01:43 »

To answer a few questions:

Brembo - not sure on the exact pressure yet, but it will not be a low boost job. The engine will be re-built. I am not going to increase the capacity to 1800cc as that would mean increasing the bore from 80mm to 83mm. This means reducing the gap between bores in the block by 3mm which are already pretty tight.

The pistons will be made by JE Pistons (as are Toby's) http://www.jepistons.com/. I have a well regarded engine builder coming to the workshop to work on it for a day. Absolute gold dust, as modifying the internals of my engine are well beyond my capabilities.

I am going for the GT28RS to minimise effects of lag and bring in more boost lower down the rpm range. The torque of the FRP is a little lacking (it is only a 1.7!), so this is where I am going to focus.

As to diffs, it is running the optional extra (and pretty damn rare) FRP LSD. The engine will be built to cope with a lot more than 250bhp - in fact I am looking into having several different maps for different power outputs as the Motec M4 Pro ECU can deal with that. The only problem is that I have to stop every time I want to change map - a pain if I find an exotic I fancy taking on but am stuck in 200bhp mode!

insane - To give you an idea, Toby's turbo puma, which is running 260bhp has a VBox timed 0-60 time of 5.39 seconds, 0-100 time of 12.33seconds, 1/4 mile in 15.59 seconds. I don't think the 40-90 time in the video above is too shabby either for 155bhp.

everso Yep, I was looking at the 1.8T conversion. I put some serious thought into it - the only thing that dictated it was the timing of the front end of a FRP. It was too good to turn down. Life is a LOT easier when you have every single component almost in duplication!

TT - You shall see her in action this summer

TT · « **Reply #6 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 16:12:13 »

I really hope this second run will be a big success!

brembo · « **Reply #7 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 16:24:03 »

Quote from: jon_s on 26-Dec-2007, 16:01:43

To answer a few questions:

Brembo - not sure on the exact pressure yet, but it will not be a low boost job. The engine will be re-built. I am not going to increase the capacity to 1800cc as that would mean increasing the bore from 80mm to 83mm. This means reducing the gap between bores in the block by 3mm which are already pretty tight.

The pistons will be made by JE Pistons (as are Toby's) http://www.jepistons.com/. I have a well regarded engine builder coming to the workshop to work on it for a day. Absolute gold dust, as modifying the internals of my engine are well beyond my capabilities.

I am going for the GT28RS to minimise effects of lag and bring in more boost lower down the rpm range. The torque of the FRP is a little lacking (it is only a 1.7!), so this is where I am going to focus.

As to diffs, it is running the optional extra (and pretty damn rare) FRP LSD. The engine will be built to cope with a lot more than 250bhp - in fact I am looking into having several different maps for different power outputs as the Motec M4 Pro ECU can deal with that. The only problem is that I have to stop every time I want to change map - a pain if I find an exotic I fancy taking on but am stuck in 200bhp mode!

I dont know how it is with ford engines,but in the Audi familiy one can use the crankshaft from a inline 5 diesel and custom rods and piston to increase the deplacment there are other configurations too where you can stroke it without boring it up...

The highest deplacment one can get with the inline 5 2,2 is 2,8 tough then there is boring and an obscure crankshaft from a inline 5 wich was only sold in Switzerland with custom rods and pistons...

There might be a way to stroke it without boring....

jon_s · « **Reply #8 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 17:26:03 »

I shall look into it

Now for the Brembo story with pictures!

I bought a set of front brakes from A Evo XI which had done 70 miles. The car was being rally prepared and the brakes were being replaced. perfect! £255 later, I was the proud owner of some Evo Brembos.

I measured everything up and was pretty confident that they would fit under the 16s I have with 300 - 305mm discs. So, everything arrived and I started putting it together...

....as you can see from these pics - the pads look like they were made for the 300mm ST170 discs!!

I then put the pads in the caliper and made sure the caliper assembly cleared the discs...bingo - everything is looking perfect!

Time to see what the sit like in the wheel.....plenty of room - they clear the spokes with around 5mm to spare!

Ok, last hurdle....the hub

Things are looking a little tighter than expected. The hub hits the caliper and has still got 40mm to go before it is still home in the disc.

The first option would be to cut away the part of the caliper that is in the way. However, this is very close to the mounting holes and requires the structural webbing of the caliper to be cut through. I have no way of knowing how the brake would react under heavy repeated braking that the Nurburg Ring would inflict on them. It is possible that they could completely sheer off!! This is not a risk I am willing to take just to get some Evo brakes on.

So, any other options? Spacers are a possibility. The above close up of the mounting points is after the disc and wheel have been spaced out. As you can see from below, the spacing on each side would be pretty substantial to say the least! Given that this car will be producing a lot more power in the not to distant future, I am not really willing to put the CVs etc under the additional load that the spacers would put them under. I would spend mosu of my time replacing worn out parts!! Not to mention the fact that my front wheels would then stick out beyond my front wings. The first sign of a large bump at speed I would be saying good buy to my wing and hello to my bodyshop!

Any other options? Yes, I thought about having the original hubs re-drilled with the mounting points much closer to the body of the hub and cutting off the access which could allow the caliper to slip in. However, the underside of the hub's hangers thickens towards the body. Therefore, if we were to drill new holes there, any bolt the other side may a) simply not for or b) not sit flush with the back of the hangers. Again, this is a safety compromise that I am not willing to take.

Anything else?! Yes! Custom alloy hubs! They would be lighter and I could have the hangers made to my specification. However, an off the shelf alloy fiesta hub is £1,500 (for both sides). That is without any custom work! Little point in exploring that further as the costs is prohibitive.

Not all is lost, as we mocked the smaller Brembo brakes up in the below pic, and they should fit a bit easier! Just need to sell on the Evo stuff (something I could not do if I started to butcher them!) and source a set. I may even just go for the standard Ford ST170 calipers on the front and rear as they are an awesome set up!

gis · « **Reply #9 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 18:56:04 »

I absolutely love this car

danidmas · « **Reply #10 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 18:58:44 »

If this isn't an interesting project!!

I wouldn't have the balls to go for the full turbo conversions since that would mean potential reliability problems in the future (at least that what everybody say) but looks like you have the right connections and the right people to help you in that project!

Quote from: jon_s on 26-Dec-2007, 16:01:43

TT - You shall see her in action this summer

Can't wait for that!!

jon_s · « **Reply #11 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 21:38:30 »

Quote from: gis on 26-Dec-2007, 18:56:04

I absolutely love this car

Cheers mate - fancy a lift on the Rebel run? Or have you got another vehicle in mind?!?!

Dani, the only reason I am going the full length with the Turbo is the fact that I have one or two (well, three actually) very knowledgeable people to help. Mark, who helped me build the car, Toby who has built a reliable 1.7 Turbo and regularly uses it as a sprint car and Mark's good mate who is an engine builder. Between them, we should avoid some of the obvious problems. Again, while cost is obviously a factor, I have not cut any corners to date and I do not intend on starting now....if it costs more to do it properly, so be it - I just get a lot of satisfaction building the car!

brembo · « **Reply #12 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 21:57:02 »

Quote from: jon_s on 26-Dec-2007, 21:38:30

Cheers mate - fancy a lift on the Rebel run? Or have you got another vehicle in mind?!?!

Dani, the only reason I am going the full length with the Turbo is the fact that I have one or two (well, three actually) very knowledgeable people to help. Mark, who helped me build the car, Toby who has built a reliable 1.7 Turbo and regularly uses it as a sprint car and Mark's good mate who is an engine builder. Between them, we should avoid some of the obvious problems. Again, while cost is obviously a factor, I have not cut any corners to date and I do not intend on starting now....if it costs more to do it properly, so be it - I just get a lot of satisfaction building the car!

Thats the way to do it, if you cant do it properly dont do it at all.....

But I say you should look into the stroking thing, Im pretty sure ford use the same engine block for their larger deplacement engines, just with different internals and another crankshaft...

jon_s · « **Reply #13 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 22:07:03 »

I will certainly look into it mate.

I was just looking on the JE website, and I think the pistons Toby had made are now available:

http://www.je-pistons.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=618_8030_8043_8032&products_id=1629005

p.s I have now put some pics up of Toby's car - the gallery is here:

http://www.walish.co.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=35

As you will see there is a power graph which was done while owen developments were mapping the Motec ECU:

http://www.owendevelopments.co.uk/

gis · « **Reply #14 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 22:39:10 »

Quote from: jon_s on 26-Dec-2007, 21:38:30

Cheers mate - fancy a lift on the Rebel run? Or have you got another vehicle in mind?!?!

i do indeed! depending on how the first few months of this new year go will depend if i have a new car or not,if i do i will be taking that to test ti out,if not,i will happily accept your offer mate!!

everso · « **Reply #15 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 23:16:38 »

Brembos! NICE!

jon_s · « **Reply #16 on:** 26-Dec-2007, 23:38:59 »

I may have another option to get the Brembos on and these guys may be the answer...

http://www.mountune.com/contact.htm

Ronin005 · « **Reply #17 on:** 27-Dec-2007, 08:17:51 »

ah, finally the topic arrives here. nicely done man!!

pzgren · « **Reply #18 on:** 28-Dec-2007, 17:57:16 »

yeah, interesting project jon. keep going the great work and keep us updated

Pagani · « **Reply #19 on:** 30-Dec-2007, 00:40:36 »

Cool project fiesta's can be very fun.
You car is a sleeper.