i feel like arguing about BMWs.

[everso]

i still hate BMWs.  except older ones.  and except the 1-series.

the current 3-series blows.  the new 5-series looks like a giant 3-series.  the new 7-series looks like a 5-series.  the new Z4 sucks.  the M3 is still a "cock's" car.  the new 6-series is boring. 

i drove a 335i a few weeks ago.......aside from the fugly interior, and the boring outside...it wasn't a bad car to drive....it felt smooth, fast.....but it bored the hell outta me.....it had no feeling...it was numb.  On top of that, the engine in the 335 has had terrible reliability issues....so what's the point of them making twin turbo engines that don't even stay reliable?

[Stoffie]

I know the solution, don't buy a BMW 

But you do have a point. They are nice cars, but as with many makes, thirtheen in a dozen as far as looks are concerned, and getting too bulky. I do rather like the interiors though.

Any modern saloon is miles away from its counterpart 20 years ago as far as driver involvement is concerned, all in the name of safety and creature comfort, but name one make that is different ? Don't tell me driving an Audi is involving or that the styling is amazing ? They look even more the same these days. Same for all those ugly Benz's. Jags look like they are made in China, for the Chinese market... nothing on the US market either that can attract my attention, let alone the poor interiors.  The Crysler 300M was something, now they ruined that too.

I can't really think of a contemporary car (save some more sporty and extreme stuff but that's outside the scope here I believe) that gets my blood pumping much.

Stepping into my 26 year old 6'er however, does it every time, no matter how, where or when the drive 

[everso]

I know the solution, don't buy a BMW 

But you do have a point. They are nice cars, but as with many makes, thirtheen in a dozen as far as looks are concerned, and getting too bulky. I do rather like the interiors though.

Any modern saloon is miles away from its counterpart 20 years ago as far as driver involvement is concerned, all in the name of safety and creature comfort, but name one make that is different ? Don't tell me driving an Audi is involving or that the styling is amazing ? They look even more the same these days. Same for all those ugly Benz's. Jags look like they are made in China, for the Chinese market... nothing on the US market either that can attract my attention, let alone the poor interiors.  The Crysler 300M was something, now they ruined that too.

I can't really think of a contemporary car (save some more sporty and extreme stuff but that's outside the scope here I believe) that gets my blood pumping much.

Stepping into my 26 year old 6'er however, does it every time, no matter how, where or when the drive 

your old 6-er is amazing...i love what BMW was doing in the 80s...which is why as a kid, i wanted a BMW more than anything else...

i will disagree with you about Audis.  I am a fanboy of Audis (still!) and modern Audis still have plenty of character....they still build cars with character...and their styling is by far and away the best out of all the luxury carmakers IMO-------now that they have De Silva bringing his Alfa Romeo influence has really smoothed out the sedans in the lineup even more....the S and RS cars Audi makes are so entertaining to drive....as are the TT and R8....Audis are cars to experience...if you spend a few days with an Audi, you will understand why some of us are so devoted to them....

BMW doesn't have a halo sports car....it doesn't make great entry-level sedans anymore (the E30 sedans from the 80s...and even the E36 bimmers were such good cars), it doesn't make great expensive sedans (the A8 and S-Class constantly pisses all over the 7-series)....and i'm failing to see how they have maintained any of their original character!!!!

Mercedes has maintained their brand, even if it went through reliability problems, etc.....but they still build strong, powerful, technologically advanced cars which exude power and class-----their AMGs are the ultimate luxury muscle cars.

[bmuller]

-----their AMGs are the ultimate luxury muscle cars.

I consider myself somewhat of an Audi fanboy, but personally, I'd go with a brabus

[ZfrkS62]

The motors aren't the problem in the 335. For some god damn reason they had a widespread failure of the high pressure fuel pumps. As it turns out, they only used that pump in the US and China and has 11 different points of failure. Why they used the shittiest parts in their 2 biggest markets, I have no clue. They've also had issues with the fuel injectors; both parts currently have recalls behind them and the high pressure pumps have had their warranties extended to 10years/120,000 miles, so it's not like BMW doesn't stand behind their products.

Styling wise, I think the E92 is on par with the A5; advantage going to Audi with the headlights. Truth be told, Audi has the coolest headlights out there.

I haven't had a chance to really drive the F10 5er and F01 7er yet, but I am not a fan of the grills on the 7. kind of hog nosed IMO. I think the new 6 is going to be a huge improvement though.

I really want to argue the interior styling of the E90-3, but I think the cluster is lacking something. The E46 and my E36 clusters are great, but maybe it's the over simplification of the E90 (which is pretty much just a hand-me-down from the E60 anyway) cluster that makes it feel so lack luster.

Don't get me wrong, I love the 335's. The exhaust note on the stock system is great and having the double pivot front suspension is 20x better than the E46's.

Yes, the M3/5/6 is the douchetard's car. Can't disagree there. I see WAY to many of them. Especially the convertibles..

I have been feeling like BMW has sold out a bit in the past few years. Proof of that was the X3. But Audi hasn't helped itself much with the Q7 and 5. And what the hell is the deal with the B5? I think my Toyota is bigger than that thing...

=edit= re-reading this, i'm not really helping your search for an argument much...I haven't really felt like BMW is measuring up all that well lately...

[ARMAN]

heeey wait a minute... whats going on here? 

[ZfrkS62]

Come to think of it, how come i don't see that many S-line cars? There's a B5 that I see more often than not on my way in to work, but of all the Audi's I see, only 1 or 2 are S models.

We did recently get a RS-4 cabrio traded in; presumably on a M3. So, what's that say?

Despite what kind of D-bags pick up the M3, There have to be similar retards attracted to other brands. The M cars are still very formidable machines in the proper hands. BMW can't control who buys the cars and it certainly isn't the car's fault.

I dunno, arguing about Audi vs BMW vs Mercedes vs any other manufacturer seems to be as productive as arguing about what breed of dog is the best. Every owner is going to say that their dog's breed is the best just out of bias and no one else is going to vary their opinion just based on that.

[Stoffie]

Amen to that. Each make has its own merits but it comes down to personal choice every time.

All I can say, the older ones were cooler!  (and even back then, the same argument was going on, and continues up to this day, was reading this thread a few days ago where Benz 560SEC owners were commenting on the Benz vs the BMW E24 6-series vs Porsche 928's)

[Driy]

was reading this thread a few days ago where Benz 560SEC owners were commenting on the Benz vs the BMW E24 6-series vs Porsche 928's)

do you have a link?? 

[Sir_GT]

I like BMW, but don't like the current 3 series either. I'll go as far as to say that design-wise, Volvo's new S60 sedan has more character than BMW's 3 in the metal.

I saw a black 3 in 18's and a black S60 in 18's, and the S60's Maserati coupe boomerang tail lights shat all over the bimmer's.

[Stoffie]

do you have a link??

Click!

As you can imagine, it's pretty much slanted towards the Benz side since it's on a Benz forum, but nonetheless, some interesting thoughts.

[ARMAN]

^^thanx nice read, even if I LOVE the looks and style of SEC i'd take 635csi or better m635csi over it in a heartbeat

[Stoffie]

I wouldn't mind having both a 560SEC and a 928 S4 to keep my M635CSi company 

They're all different cars, but all are awesome in their own right!

So how's that M5 coming along Arman ?  Dude I know from another forum went on a roadtrip to Spain, to get a near-mint E34 M5 (S38B36, with turbine wheels  ), for a mere 9000€. Have to say I was jealous...

[ARMAN]

yea m5's are dirt cheap these days would love to go and get me one            

[TopGearNL]

BMW is a brand in a class of its own. Its a RWD car with a sporting character. More sporty then Audi and Mercedes. Mercedes concentrates more on comfort and Audi sits in between these 2 brands.

If you don't like the stiffness/handling/ride or something else about BMW, tough..! It says more about you then about BMW. BMW is a real drivers car, lets you put it right near the edge and gives you the full experience in driving.

This all really is comparing Mozarella cheese against Danish blue and Cheddar. They all have a distinctive character which we either love or hate..

[Igorionia]

I decided to input my 2 cents.
I own e30 325i - Real drivers car IMO. LSD + race coils + light + big engine. 
and one more car as daily. It's Audi A4 1.9TDi FWD - boring car. But as DD it's just wonderful! 1500km on full tank of diesel (65liters). Interior is just PERFECT! Lights, colour (red and white) Just classic!

Talkin about new Audis. Exterior and Interios design is - perfect! Boring or not depends on engine, suspension etc. But most of them - BORING! I'm not talkin about S or RS models (sorry but I had no apportunities to drive them).

From my point of view. New BMW interior is CRAP! Exterior - I like new 5series,3series,Z4 (looks impressive in flash and RED!). I LOVE new3-series E92!!!!!!!! I HATE last 7series,6series(boring).
Even 1series design is - ... shit! But I liked the idea of buildin light and powerfull car for DRIVING!!!!
But it's hard to build such a car nowadays. Because of all SAFETY and comfort standarts.

In conclusion! It's hard to say What is good and what is bad.
Some likes BMW interiors, some Audi's
Somebody likes drive! Some - COMFORT.
It's hard to find YOUR OWN CAR!
Sometimes it needs to build it by yourself. 

If you want DRIVE! GO with E46M3, RS4 B5. Or build your own E30 Depends on your budget! And on your "standarts" in comfort, power, safety etc.

[spanky]

I'd buy a E39 M5 V8 any day of the week. I loved those things... I even remember the star video clip with madonna!!

But the new 3 series etc are definitely boring to look at, as are the basic audi's and benz's. A customer got a new 650 just before xmas and i must say it definitely looks much better in the flesh than it does in photo's..... but its no oil painting thats for sure

[ZfrkS62]

I'd buy a E39 M5 V8 any day of the week. I loved those things... I even remember the star video clip with madonna!!

But the new 3 series etc are definitely boring to look at, as are the basic audi's and benz's. A customer got a new 650 just before xmas and i must say it definitely looks much better in the flesh than it does in photo's..... but its no oil painting thats for sure

hahahaha, I loved that video! Clive Owen was hilarious in that one.

[TopGearNL]

hahahaha, I loved that video! Clive Owen was hilarious in that one.

I also liked the one with the Chinese kid! 

BMW-Chosen with Clive Owen

540i with M package I believe?

[ARMAN]

wow i havent see thisone sounds like v8